ALASKA CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION

November 17, 1955

TENTH DAY

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. I would like to introduce to the delegates the Reverend Mr. A. E. Purviance, minister of the First Methodist Church of Fairbanks. Reverend Purviance will give us our invocation.

THE REVEREND MR. PURVIANCE: O God our Heavenly Father, we thank Thee for the night of rest and sleep that we may gather together here this morning. We recognize in Thee that for which we hunger. We do not trust ourselves and our own wisdom and judgment, and so we begin the day's meetings turning to Thee, asking that Thou wilt give us a portion of Thy wisdom and Thy strength. We thank Thee, Our Father, for this very momentous occasion. We thank Thee for these delegates and for the way in which they have been chosen, for this country of ours and for the principles for which it stands, for this method which we choose in elections. We pray now that Thou would so bless each delegate and each worker here that great good may come from the sessions of this day and when it is over that we may look back upon it and find that the Hand of God has helped us in writing these laws and statutes which shall lift our people in days to come to a greater height in their daily living. Wilt Thou hear us now. Bless us and guide us with Thy presence and we shall praise Thy name forever more. Amen.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk will call the roll.

CHIEF CLERK: Fifty-four present, one absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: A quorum is present. The Convention will proceed with its business, the presentation of petitions, memorials and communications from outside of the Convention.

(Telegram from C. E. Peck, Grand Secretary, Alaska Native Brotherhood sending greetings to the delegates from the delegates seated in the Forty-third annual convention of the Alaska Native Brotherhood and Sisterhood at Petersburg, was read.)

PRESIDENT EGAN: The communication can become a part of the record.

(A communication from the President of the University of Alaska calling the delegates' attention to a special lecture series at the University Gymnasium Thursday evening November 17 -- the speaker to be Dr. Thomas R. Davis of the Arctic Aeromedical Laboratory was read by Secretary Stewart.)

(Announcement of the Music Department's fall concert at the University Sunday, November 20, at 3 p.m. was read by

PRESIDENT EGAN: The communications can be filed.

(Resolution from the League of Alaskan Cities extending greetings to the Constitutional Convention, stating its interest in a good and equitable solution to the local government needs of Alaska and offering its help in every possible way, was read by Secretary Stewart.)

PRESIDENT EGAN: The communication can be filed. Are there any petitions or memorials? If there are none, are there reports of standing committees? Mr. Cross.

CROSS: This is a report of the Committee on Resolutions:

"WHEREAS the Convention on November 14, 1955, referred to this Committee for action the following motion which was made by R. E. Robertson and seconded by Maurice T. Johnson, namely:

'I move that it is the intent of this Convention that the Constitution should be a document of fundamental principles of basic law, and contain only the framework for state government, with all the details to be ordained in the discretion of future legislatures.'

"Now, upon consideration of said motion,

IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT it be adopted and enacted by the Convention in the following amended form, viz.:

'I move that it is the intent of this convention that the Constitution should be a document of fundamental principles of basic government, and contain the framework for state government.'"

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Committee on Resolutions. What is the pleasure of the Convention? Mr. Robertson?

ROBERTSON: Mr. Chairman, I move the report be adopted.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Robertson moves for the adoption of the report.

JOHNSON: I second the motion and ask unanimous consent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Johnson seconds the motion and asks unanimous consent. Is there objection? Mr. Marston?

MARSTON: It says "...document of fundamental principles of basic government, and contain only the framework for state

We limit ourselves only to the framework of state government.

I, in principle, am for this but I think we are pinning ourselves down for the time being.

JOHNSON: Mr. President, I believe in the recommended version as set forth by the Committee the word "only" is removed. Is that correct?

PRESIDENT EGAN: The word "only" does not appear. Mr. Johnson, you are correct. Is there further discussion on the motion. Is there objection? Hearing no objection the motion is ordered adopted.

ROBERTSON: Question, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Robertson.

ROBERTSON: Is it now necessary to move to renew the motion or will the motion now be called up itself? Does the adoption of the report carry the motion?

PRESIDENT EGAN: That would carry the motion, Mr. Robertson. The effect of that report would carry the original motion. Are there other reports of standing committees? Mr. Collins?

COLLINS: Mr. President, the Committee on Direct Legislation, No. XIII, wish to report that the Committee met yesterday on schedule, and Mr. Taylor was elected as Vice Chairman, Mr. Metcalf as Secretary. We are organized and report progress.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of Committee No. XIII. Mr. Taylor was elected Vice Chairman and Mr. Metcalf, Secretary. Mr. Hellenthal?

HELLENTHAL: Mr. President, Committee No. VI met yesterday. Douglas Gray was elected Secretary and George Cooper elected Vice President. The Committee will meet again as scheduled.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment. Mr. George Cooper was elected Vice President and Mr. Douglas Gray was elected Secretary. Are there reports of other standing committees? If not, are there reports of select committees? Introduction and first reading of proposals. Does anyone have a proposal. Mr. Robertson?

ROBERTSON: Mr. Chairman, I have two proposals I would like to introduce. One is already on the Secretary's desk and here is the other one (brought forward by Sergeant at Arms).

SECRETARY: ''Delegate Proposal No. 4, introduced by R. E. Robertson, FINANCE: TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF CURRENT, BONDED,

SCHOOL DISTRICTS, PUBLIC UTILITY DISTRICTS, AND OTHER TAXING AUTHORITY DISTRICTS SHALL BE SUBJECTED OR WHICH THEY MAY INCUR."

PRESIDENT EGAN: The proposal is referred to the Committee on Finance and Taxation, Committee No. XI. It might be well before the Secretary reads any more proposals that the messenger collect all proposals that might be available. Mr. Victor Rivers.

V. RIVERS: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask in regard to the previous proposal, is that a fundamental principle of basic government that you limit debt, in accordance with the resolution we just adopted?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Rivers, of course it says "it will be the intent". What the outcome of any such proposal might be will be left to the judgment of the membership of the Convention.

V. RIVERS: I just wanted an interpretation in the minutes.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there other proposals? If you have proposals, have them ready when the messenger comes around to your desk and he will bring them to the Secretary.

SECRETARY: "Delegate Proposal No. 5, introduced by R. E. Robertson, DEFINITION OF NATURAL RESOURCES AND THEIR CONTROL."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Proposal No. 5 -- that would be Committee No. X, the Committee on Resources. The Proposal is referred to the Committee on Resources.

SECRETARY: "Delegate Proposal No. 5, introduced by Maurice T. Johnson and John B. Coghill, EDUCATION."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is that the only title?'

SECRETARY: It is the only title that appears. Do you wish a brief statement of content?

PRESIDENT EGAN: If the Secretary would, would he read the brief statement.

SECRETARY: Section 1 relates to providing the rights of education; Section 2, the State's responsibility for education; Section 3, Legislature to establish the school, etc.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee No. XIII, Committee on Direct Legislation, Amendment and Revision. The Chair would ask an opinion of the maker of the proposal what committee you would rather have it go?

JOHNSON: It occurs to me that either the committee you have suggested, Mr. President, or else the Executive Committee.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, the Proposal will be referred to the Committee on Direct Legislation. If that Committee would make another recommendation later, another disposition could be made. Are there other proposals?

SECRETARY: No further proposals.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there any motions or resolutions to come before the Convention at this time?

SECRETARY: No resolutions.

PRESIDENT EGAN: We have with us this morning Colonel Sawtelle from Ladd Air Force Base. Colonel Sawtelle, you may come forward.

(Colonel Sawtelle came forward and shook hands with President Egan.)

PRESIDENT EGAN: Colonel Sawtelle would like to be granted the privilege of the floor to make a statement. If there is no objection, Colonel Sawtelle, you may proceed.

COLONEL SAWTELLE: Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this morning concerning the activities which we have planned for you at Ladd Air Force Base this coming Saturday, pending the decision of the Convention to adjourn for the purpose of touring Ladd's facilities this coming Saturday. We have prepared an agenda which I feel all of you now have at hand. The necessity for having the tour in the morning is necessarily predicated on the fact that you can best see when it is daylight, and another factor came to mind, and that was the luncheon and I think fashion show which is being planned for the ladies of the delegates present. Another item which we have caused to be passed among you is a small slip which I would appreciate your indulgence and have you fill out while I am here in order that we may more adequately plan our activities in relation to transportation and the evening entertainment. Mr. Stewart has the invitations from the Commander in chief, Alaska, Lt. General Joseph H. Atkinson, who will be your host for the evening. On the invitations it is noted that the activities commence at 6:00. However, there has been a change, and we would again ask your indulgence to be. available for the bus pick-up at the Nordale Hotel at 4:30 in the afternoon in order that we could have you at the club at 5:00. We are going to have a radio broadcast in which there will be several speakers, among them, your President, we hope Mr. Bartlett and General Atkinson. That will continue for approximately 30 minutes, following which time there will be a reception by General and Mrs. Atkinson, and

wishes of our Commander in chief and the good wishes of my Commander, General Bennett, Commander of the llth Air Division at Ladd. Thank you very much.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Thank you, Colonel Sawtelle. Mr. Hellenthal?

HELLENTHAL: Subject to the question of whether or not the motion is in order at this time, I should like to move that this Convention adjourn Saturday for the purpose of attending the planned reception at Ladd Air Force Base.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal, would the purpose of your motion be just for the afternoon session or the whole day?

HELLENTHAL: The whole day. I think it is unnecessary to give the pressing reasons why we as delegates should take advantage of this very kind invitation.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Then you are asking, Mr. Hellenthal, in your motion that on Friday the Convention adjourn?

HELLENTllAL: Until Saturday morning, at I would suggest, 9 o'clock, and I so move, or rather Monday morning at 9 o'clock.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You are asking the general consent of the Convention? The Chair was wondering if it might be better to delay that action until later in the day when the delegates have had ample opportunity to think the question over.

HELLENTHAL: My point on that is that I know a vast amount of preparatory work goes into a matter of this kind, and it certainly would accommodate our hosts if we would make up our minds as soon as possible.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there a second to the motion?

BUCKALEW: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It has been moved and seconded that the Convention agree to adjourn on Friday until 9 o'clock a.m. on Monday in order that the Saturday activities at Ladd Air Force Base might be enjoyed by the delegates to the Convention. The question is, shall the Convention agree to adjourn on Friday until 9 a.m. on Monday?" All those in favor of the motion will signify by saying "aye". All opposed by saying "no". The "ayes have it and it will be the general agreement of the Convention that the Convention will adjourn on Friday until 9 o'clock in the morning of Monday. Is there other business to come before the Convention at this time?

JOHNSON: Mr. Chairman, may I ask for a two-minute recess

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection the Convention will stand at recess for two minutes. The Convention is at recess.

RECESS

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. Mr. Knight?

KNIGHT: Mr. President, I move and ask unanimous consent that the Secretary be instructed to write a letter to the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce thanking them for the wonderful party, dinner, and reception they gave in honor of the delegates last night.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Knight moves and asks unanimous consent that the Secretary be instructed to write a letter of thanks to the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce for the wonderful party given in honor of the delegates last night. Hearing no objection it is so ordered. Mr. Cooper?

COOPER: Mr. President, I move and ask unanimous consent that the rules be suspended and that reconsideration be given to the vote for adjournment of a full day on Saturday.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would like to state that the maker of the original motion plans to offer an amended motion at the afternoon session.

COOPER: I withdraw my motion.

SECRETARY: Mr. President,

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Secretary.

SECRETARY: Colonel Sawtelle asks that one or two amendments be stated concerning this invitation. The Ladd Air Force hosts prefer that in the morning visit all the delegates ride on the buses because it will be a sort of guided tour, and if they were all together there the information given during the tour would be more easily handled. In the afternoon, however, those delegates who desire to bring their cars, it would be appreciated. They can be identified at the gate by the delegates' coat lapel tag or by the Convention courtesy parking ticket that was issued for the cars, and they should assemble at that time at the officers' club at Ladd. And the last item on the schedule -- buses leaving Ladd Officers' Club at midnight -- that has been amended, there will be a bus leaving there at 10 p.m.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there anything else to come before the Convention at this time?

SECRETARY: There is one other matter. The delegates may bring their cameras if they so desire.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there any unfinished business to come before the Convention? If not, the Chair would entertain a motion for a recess.

DAVIS: Mr. President, before recessing, the two subcommittees on Style and Drafting will meet at the usual time and in the usual place.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard Mr. Davis's announcement. Are there other announcements? Mr. Gray.

GRAY: I move that the Convention recess until 1:30.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Gray moves and asks unanimous consent that the Convention recess until 1:30. The President would like to meet again with the committee chairmen at 1 p.m. in the regular meeting place on the third floor. Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: The Committee on Convention Administration will meet at the usual place and the usual time.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Administration announcement has been made. If there is no objection the Convention will stand at recess until 1:30 p.m.

RECESS

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order (1:40 p.m.) We will have the reading of the journal of the ninth day. Mr. Doogan?

DOOGAN: The Committee has read the journal and made the corrections as they see them. I am only going to read the corrections since everybody has a copy of the journal. Mr. White, I believe will have a report of some recommendations after I am through." On Page 2, the last paragraph where it starts "Mr. Rivers , that should be "Mr. R. or Mr. Ralph Rivers". All other references in the journa1 to Mr. Rivers should be "Mr. V." or "Mr. Victor Rivers . On Page 5, the fifth paragraph, starting "Mr. Johnson moved and asked unanimous consent," strike the words "paid salary and per diem" and insert "shown present on the roll call." On Page 6, paragraph 10, after 9 o'clock insert "the following morning. Those are the corrections in the report as your Committee sees them.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Do you ask unanimous consent of your proposal?

DOOGAN: Yes, I ask unanimous consent that the journal be approved.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Doogan asks unanimous consent that the changes as proposed by the special committee to read the journal be approved. Is there objection? Hearing no objection -- Mr. Doogan?

DOOGAN: Just a moment. The Secretary just picked up a matter that I think should be straightened out. Also on the fifth

page, in paragraph 4, starting in the middle of the paragraph, Mr. McLaughlin asked Mr. Johnson to amend his motion to read that the roll call show Mr. Taylor as present." That whole sentence should be stricken. The reason for that -- I might explain -- when Mr. Johnson made the original motion and Mr. McLaughlin asked him to change his original motion there was not an amendment, so the motion in effect reads, "Mr. Johnson moved and asked unanimous consent that since Mr. Taylor's absence was due to illness, that he be shown present on the roll call. There being no objection it was so ordered."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Doogan, do you include that in your original unanimous consent request? Mr. Kilcher?

KILCHER: In that case, to erase any mention of the amendment in there, "Mr. Johnson accepted the change" should also be stricken.

HERMANN: It seems to me there are too many "thats" in the first sentence of that paragraph.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Do you accept that, Mr. Doogan?

DOOGAN: Yes.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Doogan asks unanimous consent then that the proposed changes as contained in his unanimous consent request be adopted by the Convention and that the journal be approved as per that request. Is there objection? Hearing no objection it is so ordered. Miss Awes?

AWES: Mr. President, I just noticed that in the reports of the various committees it usually says that the committee elected a secretary. Technically that is not right. A vice chairman was elected and a secretary was appointed.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would instruct that wherever it might say a "secretary was elected" that it show that the secretary of the standing committee was appointed by the chairman of that committee. The vice president of each of those standing committees was elected by the committee. Mr. White?

WHITE: Am I right in thinking that has been disposed of, the reading of the journal?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Unless there are further objections or corrections found. Mr. White.

WHITE: I ask unanimous consent to return to the business of committee reports for the purpose of a report of the committee on reading and correcting the journal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to returning to reports of special committees? If not, Mr. White, you may proceed with your reading of the committee report on the reading of the journal.

WHITE: Mr. Chairman, the report of the Committee on reading and correcting the journal is entitled "CONVENTION POLICY AS TO READING AND CORRECTING THE JOURNAL.

1. That copies of the journal be placed on delegates' desks as soon as possible.

That the journal be read for approval at the opening session of the second day following the date of the journal.

3. That delegates be responsible for reporting errors and changes to Chief Clerk's office prior to one-half hour before the convening of the opening session of the second day following the date of the journal.

4. The report of the committee on reading the journal be accepted as final subject to ruling by the Chair.

5. That it shall be the policy of the committee to dispense with the reading of the journal except for changes, except when otherwise requested. That two copies only -- one in possession of the Secretary of the Convention and one in possession of the committee

-- be corrected, except in cases of important changes, when such changes will be remimeographed.

Mr. Chairman, I move the adoption of the report.

HELLENTHAL: I object.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there a second?

DOOGAN: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Doogan seconds Mr. White's motion. Mr. Marston?

MARSTON: I may not know how parliamentary rules are practiced here, but in that Page 5 "Mr. Johnson moved and asked unanimous

he be reported present. I do not like to be a party to a thing that is not true. I don't object to paying his per diem but it seems to water down this body, and I don't understand that.

SWEENEY: Mr. President, point of order.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney, your point of order.

SWEENEY: The Delegate is not speaking on the business at hand.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Your point of order is well taken. Mr. Marston, could you hold that? The question is on the adoption of the report of the Special Committee to read the journal and report corrections to the Convention. Mrs. Sweeney?

SWEENEY: Mr. Chairman, I objected to the unanimous consent request on that, and I would like to hear the second point read again.

WHITE: The second point was, "That the journal be read for approval at the opening session of the second day following the date of the journal." May I elaborate on that? In other words, that yesterday's journal rather than being read for approval at this session today, it will be read for the approval of the opening session of tomorrow morning. The theory behind it is this, that you have on your desk now copies of yesterday's journal which would serve most purposes for the time being. It is conceivable that the boiler room upstairs could get so jammed up that these copies would not have been available to you until just now. There would have been no chance for the delegates to read them and suggest changes prior to approval at this session.

SWEENEY: I object to that, Mr. Chairman. We have a 20-minute plenary session in the morning and about 20 minutes in the afternoon, and yesterday the Chief Clerk advised us that she had her journal practically up to time, and I see no reason why the journal cannot be on our desks fairly early in the morning and taken up the first thing in the afternoon. I think it is important that we have the journal and have it approved for the reason that those who wish to reconsider their votes I believe they can still do that on the next day whereas the day following would be too late. I think if we make a practice of putting this off until the second day we are going to have it the second day and perhaps even later than that. I believe we can have it on the following morning, and I will certainly vote to defeat the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion on the motion? If there is no other discussion then the question is -- Mr. Taylor?

TAYLOR: I think before we can intelligently pass upon this matter as to whether Mrs. Sweeney is right or whether Mr. White is right, we should ascertain from the boiler room when those journals can be put out each day.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Taylor, do you think it would be proper at this time to ask the Chief Clerk to make a statement on that? Perhaps she could enlighten us.

TAYLOR: If the Chief Clerk can give us that information, I would certainly like to know.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection the Chief Clerk might straighten out this matter.

CHIEF CLERK: The journal was ready this morning. The stencils were cut but they had to be run. We had the rules to run last night, we had committee reports to run last night, there are going to be more things being run every night as your committees get going, and I have told them that the journal is the most important thing in the morning, but that does not mean that there would not be a committee report that would be more important, and I certainly intend to see that you have the journal on your desk as soon as possible in the morning, but it is a physical impossibility due to the fact that we are out here and the people live in town and there isn't any transportation late in the evening for people to get back to work, and they come to work at 8:30. When Mr. White asked me about that I thought that it would simplify the facts for the members to have a chance to read the journal. You would have it on your desk to consult any references to action of the previous day, but for the actual corrections, you would have all day long to read it to check any changes that would be made. That was why I accepted his idea. It was not to delay your getting the copy of the journal -- it was to delay the approval of it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion? The question is, "Shall the report of the Committee to read and correct the journal be approved by the Convention?" All those in favor of approval of the"report will signify by saying "aye", all opposed by saying no . The "ayes" have it and the report is ordered approved. Mr. Hellenthal.

HELLENTHAL: Mr. President, after conferring with the administrative people of our staff and the experts on the various fields of Convention activity, and in relation to the problem this morning of the visit to Ladd Field, I asked that it be noted on the record that it is in the interest of the business of this Convention and of the matters properly before this Convention that the delegates visit Ladd Air Force Base on next Saturday, November 19. Now my reasons and the reasons given me for this notation are, that we have many problems involving

committee of our body. For example, the Committee on Bill of Rights will have to determine whether or not there should be a right to suspend the writ of habeas corpus in the state of Alaska because of the imminence of attack or of invasion. It would seem to me that those of us who have not lived close to the military would want to know what steps the military have taken for the protection of the state of Alaska. Again, the problem of the quartering of troops in our homes will present itself to our body and no matter how you look at the analysis of the economy of Alaska today and Alaska as a state, the military must be considered. It must be considered in every projection of estimates or growth, population, everything, so for that reason it would appear that the notation on the record is in order, that it is the proper business of the group to visit this military installation and again, I have been assured that this matter will take care of all of the administrative details that seem to bother our technical staff.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal, are you asking unanimous consent that the summary of your remarks be included as a part of the journal?

HELLENTHAL: I do, Mr. President. I so move.

BUCKALEW: Objection.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal asks unanimous consent. Objection is heard. Is there a second? Do you so move?

HELLENTHAL: I so move.

BARR: I'll second it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal moves and Mr. Barr seconded the motion. The question is open for discussion. Mr. Cooper?

COOPER: I can see no reason for a tour of Ladd Field which takes up approximately three hours. I can see no reason to take that time. I don't think any questions or issues could be settled in three hours by merely touring the facilities available on one particular military base. Personally, I would rather see the Convention in plenary session until such time and then adjourn a little earlier in the afternoon possibly and take in the formalities -- they begin at 4:30. For a particular reason that each and every delegate here has the authority within himself to attend this morning session if he so chooses, but I don't like the motion made whereby it would be the will of the entire body to be present at Ladd Field during the morning tour.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion on Mr. Hellenthal's motion? Mr. Barr?

BARR: Mr. President, it seems a question of whether or not this tour is important enough to this Convention to suspend operations here for awhile. I certainly feel that it is. Mr. Hellenthal mentioned several things that we should learn about the military because we are concerned with them but he could go on further than he did -- there is a long list of them we are all concerned about the withdrawal of lands by the military, and people who are not closely connected with the military I am sure only see one side of it. We should learn a little more about their needs for land. Now, the events in the evening are mostly entertainment with the exception of an address by General Atkinson, but what they put on for us out there in the morning is for instruction, and I understand that General Bennett is going to give us a briefing on the operation of air defense they'll put on a practice scramble for us and that sort of thing and I think it is important that we know how the military works as well as their needs. That is a part of our business.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McNealy.

MCNEALY: Mr. President, I would like to add to Mr. Barr's statement and Mr. Hellenthal's. I have had the privilege on four different occasions in the past few years of going on this particular tour and particularly listening to the briefing by General Bennett which will be given the delegates of this Convention, and in addition to the things that they have mentioned, I think it is of importance to the members of this Convention to find out where we are spending a million and one-half dollars for one of these jet planes and the kind of building that it takes to keep that plane in operation, and the money that is spent for taxes in connection with the military in addition to other items that have been mentioned here. This briefing will be beneficial to the members of this group who have not had the opportunity before of getting the firsthand information. I think it will play very possibly an important part in writing some parts of this constitution.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Taylor.

TAYLOR: Mr. President, none of the speakers has brought up the question of common courtesy and also advantageous public relations with the Army. As a state we are going to be living with them for quite a long time, and when the Commanding General of a department of the Army puts himself out to put out a program for the members of this Convention, want to show what their problems are and what they are up against, I think the hours can be very well spent on Saturday morning for those members of the Convention who want to go out there and see what they have to offer. It might be well to hear what General Atkinson has to say. He is a pretty big man in the Army. I feel that the loss of those few hours on Saturday morning will not make or break this Convention, and it might be a means of

achieving a good public relations between the Army and the state. They know that this is a Convention that is going to enact a constitution for the state of Alaska, and if we act in a boorish mood, take a boorish attitude toward them that we don't care to go out there, we might as a state suffer a little bit from the actions of the Convention delegates.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hurley.

HURLEY: Mr. President, obviously I am in the minority. I agree with Mr. Cooper. I feel that these things are important that have been spoken about. I also feel that in peace time there should be some semblance of supremacy over the military. I don't know whether or not the matter was taken up with our Secretary. or President before, but 1 think it is somewhat presumptuous to present us a schedule from morning to night and say this is it -- come if you want and stay away if you want. I think those things are all important, but I think it is more important we get this session over with as soon as we can do so by writing an excellent constitution. I am against adjourning for the day.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Doogan.

DOOGAN: Mr. Chairman, in that regard I have no objection either way, but if we approve this adjournment for all day Saturday we are in effect setting a precedent. Now in the brochures you have from the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce, you will notice particular for the wives and women delegates, there is approximately ten teas, most of them I believe are scheduled on a Saturday afternoon, and what I mean by setting a precedent is should you accede to the wishes of the military without acceding to the wishes of the various community and service clubs for these teas and again for the tea this afternoon that is being held in the Home Economics Room for the benefit of the delegates. I would just like to throw that in.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Marston.

MARSTON: Mr. President, I would like to know whether I can

find my application blank. I said I was going out in the afternoon. I would like to go out in the morning now.

HERMANN: I just want to ask a question about this, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Hermann.

HERMANN: If we adopt this motion as it was made by Mr. Hellenthal that this will be a part of our official duties, are we required to go on the tour of the Base?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Your point of order, Mr. Hellenthal.

HELLENTHAL: Point of order. The motion did not say that it would be a part of your official duties in so many words.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would hold there is no way that a delegate could be forced to do much of anything off the Convention floor.

HERMANN: I still want to know if I have to go.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Gray has been attempting to get the floor.

GRAY: To be a politician you have to satisfy both sides of the question. I believe that we can have our cake and eat it too if everybody will just give a little. What I see about this is that we have an entertainment in the morning and in the evening, and we have a plenary session in the morning and afternoon. I believe fully that we should use this day as a constitutional day and I believe fully that we should have a plenary session at 1:30 in our regular schedule, and I believe in adopting Mr. Hellenthal's notice and at this time I wish to rescind the motion of Mr. Hellenthal and introduce another motion that we adjourn until 1:30 tomorrow afternoon.

MCCUTCHEON: Point of order. I may be misinformed on this matter, but it appears to me we took the action for adjournment this morning and we are merely concerned now with the adoption of the summary of the intent of substantiating our reason for adjournment. We have already decided to adjourn over Saturday. This is merely a matter to put this intent in the journal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is right but Mr. Gray was saying that while he is for the statement of Mr. Hellenthal, he wants to let it be known that he is going to make another motion later. Your point of order, Mr. Hurley?

HURLEY: Point of order. I question the propriety of a motion to adjourn at a future time. I don't see how you can possibly put such a motion when you don't know what the situation will be before that.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would hold that if the Convention set a time for another day at which they were going to adjourn, that it would be in order, for the majority of the Convention can decide to do almost anything they want to relative to this Convention. If they want to say now that on Thanksgiving day they are going to adjourn and not work, then they can do that. They could overturn that action later. Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Would you have the Chief Clerk read the motion as it

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill, that would not have anything -- would the Chief Clerk read the particular motion that related to adjournment?

CHIEF CLERK: "Moved that the Convention adjourn Friday until Monday morning at 9 o'clock for the purpose of attending the activities planned at Ladd Air Force Base.

NOLAN: Mr. President, did that pass this morning?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Yes, it passed this morning, Mr. Nolan.

NOLAN: In getting a little off the subject and following Mr. Gray's thoughts, I have thought along the same lines. I thought maybe the morning part of it could have been pushed up and the buses leave from here immediately after our plenary session rather than to come back here at 1:30 in the afternoon

meet, have the roll call and then go through the 20 minute business and board the buses here and finish for the day, rather than come back at 1:30.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Nolan, then that could follow after action is taken on Mr. Hellenthal's motion, any motion along the line you are suggesting. Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Point of order. If there was a motion made to adjourn until 9 o'clock Monday morning we have nothing before us.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The motion was to adjourn from Friday until Monday morning at 9:00 is before us. We have Mr. Hellenthal's motion before us, Mr. Coghill. At the present time we are discussing the motion that is before us that was made by Mr. Hellenthal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Buckalew.

BUCKALEW: Mr. President, I might have started all this. I objected to what Mr. Hellenthal said. The only reason I objected was it seems to me that the purpose of the trip is sort of a tenuous extension of what we are going to accomplish by it. Mr. Hellenthal would apparently have people believe that 20 years from now that by going out to Ladd Air Force Base tomorrow we would get some enlightment on suspension of writ of habeas corpus and billeting troops in our homes, which as my grandmother would say, is hogwash .

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McCutcheon?

MCCUTCHEON: Contrary to Mr. Buckalew, I would say that the Commanding General of Alaska had a great deal to tell us about

withdrawals, and it might be pretty important as far as the state was concerned.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Was there further discussion on Mr. Hellenthal's motion? Mr. Walsh?

WALSH: I believe that we ought to appreciate the invitation of the military to visit Ladd Air Force Base, but if we could arrange so we could go in the morning and visit the bases, then it could be possible that we have an afternoon session at 2 o'clock or 1:30. I think we should appreciate the invitation.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Davis.

DAVIS: Mr. President, I move the previous question.

MCCUTCHEON: I second it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Davis moves the previous question, Mr. McCutcheon seconded the motion. All those in favor of ordering the previous question say "aye", all opposed say "no". The "ayes" have it and the previous question is ordered. The question is on the proposed motion by Mr. Hellenthal. All those in favor of Mr. Hellenthal's motion say "aye", all opposed say "no". The "ayes" have it and Mr. Hellenthal's motion will become a part of the journal. Mr. Gray.

GRAY: Mr. President, I would like to move that the motion as made by Mr. Hellenthal this morning be rescinded.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Gray moves that the Convention rescind the action on the motion to adjourn that was made and carried by Mr. Hellenthal this morning. Is there a second to the motion?

COOPER: I second it.

GRAY: I might tell you at this time the purpose for rescinding is merely for introducing the same motion again and changing the time. After the motion is rescinded, if it is, then we will introduce another motion, set another time for the plenary session.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McNees.

MCNEES: Mr. President, following Mr. Gray's remarks here, talking to the Colonel this morning, I would see no reason why the buses on their return from Ladd Air Force Base couldn't and wouldn't deliver the delegates right back to the Convention Hall where we could have lunch together and go into plenary session at 1:30 in the afternoon. I am making this just as a

session sometime tomorrow afternoon.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Rivers.

V. RIVERS: We have accomplished something here. We have set up a time certain for adjournment on Friday to Monday, and we have also set up a special order of business for this Convention tomorrow. Now if we were to come here, if we had a big journal full of work, if we had some reason to come here besides the roll call and reading of the minutes, but merely as a gesture to satisfy possible criticism of somebody 15 or 20 years from now, I see no reason for it. There are a number of those I noticed, who feel we should convene here and who do not want to go to Ladd Air Force Base who live in this general area. But there are a number of others who are not acquainted with circumstances. We have set up a special order of business. For those who want to observe it, it is a full day's activity. I see no reason to rescind this motion. I point out the motion to rescind takes a two-third's majority.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is correct. Is there further discussion on the motion to rescind the action on the adjournment from Friday to Monday?

UNIDENTIFIED DELEGATE: Question.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If not, the question is, "Shall the adjournment action be rescinded?"

MCCUTCHEON: Roll call. There has to be a two-thirds count.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk will call the roll.

(The Chief Clerk called the roll with the following result:

Ayes: 18 - Coghill, Cooper, Doogan, V. Fischer, Gray,

Harris, Hinckel, Hurley, Johnson, King, Laws,

Lee, McNees, Peratrovich, Poulsen, Smith,

Sweeney, Mr. President.

Nays: 33 - Armstrong, Awes, Barr, Boswell, Buckalew,

Collins, Cross, Davis, Emberg, H. Fischer,

Hellenthal, Hermann, Kilcher, Knight, Londborg,

McCutcheon, McLaughlin, McNealy, Marston,

Metcalf, Nerland, Nolan, Nordale, Reader,

Riley, V. Rivers, Rosswog, Stewart, Taylor,

VanderLeest, Walsh, White, Wien.

Absent: 4 - Hilscher, R. Rivers, Robertson, Sundborg.)

CHIEF CLERK: Eighteen ayes, 33 nays and 4 absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: So the motion to rescind the action has failed. Mr. Davis?

DAVIS: Mr. President, in calling the roll I noticed that we started again with "Armstrong." I think this particular roll should have started somewhere down the line.

PRESIDENT EGAN: We are happy you called that to the attention of the Chair and the Chief Clerk, Mr. Davis. Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Mr. President, I rise to a point of information. Through the Chair possibly the Chairman of the Rules Committee could help me out on this. I am a bit confused on when you make a motion to adjourn, it is a privileged motion and cannot be amended and in effect, you amended the motion by the previous adoption of Mr. Hellenthal's other motion to take action.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That we did not, Mr. Coghill.

COGHILL: We adjourned then from Friday evening until Monday morning and there is nothing held on the delegates of this Convention as to attend any part of the doings at Ladd Field?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill, there was no way you could force a delegate to attend that visit at Ladd Field. It just is that the motion would give them ample time to attend it if they thought it would be their duty or if they wished to attend.

COGHILL: The way I understood the motion was that the motion carried the intent that it would be official business and it would give the Convention a shield to work under for critics.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there other business to come before the Convention at this time? If there is no other business, the President will entertain a motion for adjournment. Mr. Johnson.

JOHNSON: Mr. President, I move that the Convention stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9:30 o'clock -- excuse me, I guess the adjournment time is 9 o'clock.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Johnson moves that the Convention stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. Is there objection? Hearing no objection the Convention is adjourned until 9 o'clock a.m. tomorrow.