ALASKA CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION

November 16, 1955

NINTH DAY

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. The Chair would like to introduce to the delegates the Reverend Mr. B. P. Wilson of the Assembly of God Church in Fairbanks. The Reverend Wilson will now give the daily invocation.

THE REVEREND B. P. WILSON: Our Heavenly Father, we thank Thee that Thou art a God of grace and mercy and truth. We thank Thee for Thy interest in the affairs of men, in that Thou didst send Thy only begotten Son who gave Himself for us, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. We humbly ask Thy blessing upon this Convention and the framing of this Constitution. We pray, our Lord, that Thou wilt give wisdom and direction, for Thou hast said in Thy word that "if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." May this be just and equal, and when it is finished may it be that which pleases God. We ask in Jesus' name. Amen.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chief Clerk will call the roll.

(The Chief Clerk called the roll.)

CHIEF CLERK: Fifty-four present, one absent.

PRESIDENT EGAN: A quorum is present. Now we have the reading of yesterday's journal.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I suggest in view of the time schedule for the daily sessions, which was agreed upon yesterday, that it would be more practical to have the reading of the journal at each afternoon plenary session instead of the morning session. That would give the staff a chance to mimeograph the journal during regular working hours instead of having to stay up all night to do so. So I would like to suggest as a regular way of doing business that the journal be considered in its order at the afternoon plenary session.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to Mr. Sundborg's request? If there is no objection then the reading of the journal will be considered at the afternoon plenary session. Are there presentations, petitions, memorials, or communications from outside of Convention to be read at this time?

SECRETARY: The Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce wishes to announce that all delegates would be the guests of the Chamber at the party this evening, that is, this is not a no-host affair insofar as delegates are concerned. Some few delegates who were to be sponsored by particular members of the Chamber will still

them to the Chamber dinner.

PRESIDENT EGAN: In other words, it is free.

SECRETARY: Yes.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there reports of any standing committees? The Secretary has an announcement to make.

SECRETARY: So the delegates wondered about punching the proposals and including them in covers. We had ordered covers in which to keep proposals and other materials, the minutes and the journal for example, and they were delayed in the order. We expect 35 covers today and the balance by the end of the week, so that your materials will all be collected at least by that time under a separate cover where they will be tabulated and kept by the staff in the proper order.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there reports of standing committees? Mr. Cooper?

COOPER: Mr. Chairman, I would like to know if the special committee on wire recording was released?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Cooper, the special committee on wire recording was not released as yet because it seemed it might possibly be necessary for some more technical information they could report to us later. Are there reports of standing committees then? Mr. Rosswog?

ROSSWOG: Mr. Chairman, I can report for the Local Government Committee which met yesterday and organized. The Committee elected Delegate Londborg as Vice Chairman, and Victor Fischer as our Secretary.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Delegate Rosswog reports that the Local Government Committee yesterday met and organized, and the Committee elected Delegate Londborg as Vice Chairman and Victor Fischer as Secretary.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, the Committee on Style and Drafting can report it has organized by electing Ed Davis as Vice Chairman and appointing Mrs. Katherine Nordale as Secretary.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Style and Drafting has organized and elected Ed Davis as Vice Chairman and appointed Mrs. Nordale as Secretary. Mr. Nerland?

NERLAND: Mr. President, Committee No. XI, the Committee on Finance and Taxation, organized yesterday and appointed Frank Barr as Vice Chairman and Delegate Barrie White as Secretary.

PRESlDENT EGAN: The Committee on Finance and Taxation elected Mr. Frank Barr as Vice Chairman and Mr. Barrie White as Secretary. Mr. Smith?

SMITH: Mr. President, so there will be no question, the Committee on Resources will meet at 11 a.m.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Resources will meet at 11 a.m.

MCNEALY: Mr. President, the Committee on Ordinances and Transitional Measures met and organized yesterday. Delegate James Hurley was elected as Vice Chairman and Delegate Herb Hilscher as Secretary.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Ordinances and Transitional Measures met and organized with James Hurley elected as Vice Chairman and Delegate Herb Hilscher as Secretary. Delegate Collins?

COLLINS: Mr. President, the Committee on Direct Legislation failed to organize yesterday because of the absence of one of its members, Mr. Taylor. He is not here this morning. The Committee will meet at its regular time.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Direct Legislation will meet this afternoon at the regular time. Miss Awes.

AWES: The Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights will meet at the regular time, 9:30 this morning.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights will meet at the regular time. Mr. Victor Rivers.

RIVERS: Mr. President, Committee No. VIII on the Executive will meet immediately after adjournment of this plenary session, 9:30.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Rivers announces a meeting of Committee No. VIII, the Executive, immediately after adjournment of this plenary session. Mr. Hellenthal?

HELLENTHAL: Mr. Chairman, the Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment will likewise meet on schedule.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Suffrage, Elections and Apportionment will meet as scheduled.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, Committee No. III, Style and Drafting, will meet at 11 O'clock, according to schedule.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee No. III, Style and Drafting, will meet at 11 o'clock. Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Mr. Chairman, the Committee on Administration will meet on adjournment of this morning's plenary session.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Administration will meet on adjournment of this morning's session. Mr. Cross?

CROSS: Committee No. XIV will meet immediately after the session, the Committee on Resolutions and Recommendations.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Delegate Cross reports there will be a meeting of the Committee on Resolutions and Recommendations immediately following this session.

MCLAUGHLIN: Mr. President, the Committee on Judiciary Branch met yesterday and elected Mr. Robertson as Vice Chairman, and Mr. Johnson was designated as Secretary. There was such a state of concord in that committee that it was not deemed necessary to meet again until Friday at the regular time.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Judiciary Branch has named Mr. Robertson as Vice Chairman and Mr. Johnson as Secretary. Mrs. Nordale?

NORDALE: Mr. President, I would like to make a suggestion for the sake of the journal. Would it not be better if the committees announce only when they are not going to meet or whether they're going to meet at sometime not mentioned in the schedule? Otherwise, the journal every day will carry a long list of committee meetings which are already scheduled and in our hands.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would feel that a proper suggestion, Mrs. Nordale.

V. RIVERS: Mr. Chairman, I think there should be a positive record of each committee regular meeting announcement shown in the journal each day. I think it should be as I mentioned once before, an order of business announcement of committee meetings it should show under that as a positive record, not by omission but by actually a statement for inclusion in the journal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Rivers, do you think that subject would be a proper one to be brought before the meeting of the Committee Chairmen, so then later in the day we will have such a meeting.

V. RIVERS: Yes, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Are there any other reports?

MCCUTCHEON: Mr. Chairman, Committee VII on Legislative Branch has organized. Delegate Sweeney is Vice Chairman, and Mr. McNees is Secretary, and we will meet at our regular time today.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McCutcheon announces that Committee No. VII has organized with Mrs. Sweeney as Vice Chairman and Mr. John McNees as Secretary. Committee No. VII will meet at the regular time today. Are there other committee announcements? Are there reports of select committees? Are there any proposals to be introduced? Any. motions or resolutions? Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would like to be recognized at this time on a matter of personal privilege.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, Mr. Sundborg, you are recognized as a matter of personal privilege.

SUNDBORG: Two days ago when we were considering the rules and adopting them, there was a difference of opinion with respect to one of the rules, and I think that though the Convention arrived at a decision in the matter that some of the delegates were perhaps convinced against their will, and some not convinced at all. Since that time I have heard from at least one delegate that there is a feeling that we were moving a little too fast and may have run roughshod over a minority which had a different opinion. In view of that, I think that it might be appropriate for us to consider again at this time the rule that was then under discussion. It was Rule No. 50. There had been a proposal by Mr. Smith that when the constitution is put in what is practically final order, any section of it could be sent back to second reading for specific amendment. We debated that at some length here. We discussed it also in the Rules Committee, and the majority decision was that it would not be wise to open up the whole constitution again at that time without a two-thirds vote of the members. In view of some comment which I have heard off the floor since that time, however, and the feeling by at least one delegate that the majority may be trying to have its way over a minority without due consideration of their ideas, I think it would be appropriate for us to open up the subject again. I don't feel that we should spend a whole lot of time on our rules, and I don't feel once having adopted them that we should in very many cases open them up again and try to amend them. Even less, however, do I feel that there should be any feeling that the Convention as a whole or the majority of members were trying to move too fast for even one member who has a different idea. So at this time I would like to present a motion. The motion would be, in Rule 50 which on the preliminary draft from which we were working --

MCCUTCHEON: I rise to a point of personal privilege.

PRESIDENT EGAN: First the Chair, Mr. McCutcheon, the motion would be out of order while Mr. Sundborg was speaking on his question of personal privilege. Mr. McCutcheon you may have the floor.

MCCUTCHEON: Under the Chair's ruling then, of course, I can say nothing until motion has been presented, but I rose to the point of the matter that he was introducing an amendment offering an amendment or a motion under point of personal privilege.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is right. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, may I be recognized under the order of business at this time, which is the introduction of motions?

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, Mr. Sundborg you are recognized.

SUNDBORG: I would like to move, and 1 suggest that perhaps the Convention would want to refer it to the Rules Committee and not take action on it at this time, I would like to move that the rules be amended by providing in Rule 50, line 2, after the word "thereon," insert the following: any article, other appropriate subdivision or group of articles or subdivisions may be returned to second reading for specific amendment by a vote of at least 28 members. After final action on all portions of the Constitution separately,". That is the end of the insertion, so the rule would read as proposed: "After the Constitution has been framed and before final agreement thereon, any article, other appropriate subdivision or group of articles or subdivisions may be returned to second reading for specific amendment by a vote of at least 28 members. After final action on all portions of the Constitution separately, the Convention shall refer the proposed Constitution to the Committee on Style and Drafting for final arrangement in proper order and form. After the report of said Committee, the Convention shall by the affirmative vote of at least 28 delegates agree upon the final form of the Constitution." I move that the proposed amendment to the rules be referred to the Rules Committee which thereafter shall bring a report to the Convention on the subject.

PRESIDENT EGAN: First, Mr. Sundborg, it would be necessary to move the adoption of the amendment to get it before us.

SUNDBORG: I so move then.

WHITE: I second it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Another suggestion the Chair has is that whenever there are more than two or three words in the proposed amendment that the delegate should write out the proposed amendment and hand it to the Chief Clerk. In that manner we will expedite the proceedings. and we won't get twisted -- your point of order, Mrs. Hermann.

HERMANN: Point of order, Mr. President. Shouldn't that motion,

action that has already been taken?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Hermann, that would not be necessary. A motion to amend the rules would take a two-thirds majority vote and would be in order, but the motion is that the proposed amendment by Mr. Sundborg be adopted by the Convention. Then, if it would still be Mr. Sundborg's intent to request that it be referred to the Rules Committee, he could move that the matter not be taken up at this time but be referred to the Rules Committee for consideration. Was there a second to the motion?

WHITE: I seconded it.

V. RIVERS: Point of order, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Your point of order Mr. Victor Rivers.

V. RlVERS: In as much as we have acted upon this identical item once, it now has to be received and acted upon again, it is my impression, should we suspend the rules to receive this particular motion at this time? I ask for a ruling from the Chair on that point.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Rivers, the Chair would feel that this is a different approach to the matter. The wording and the manner in which this would be brought about is different than the suggestion or proposed amendment that Mr. Smith offered the other day. The Chair would rule that the proposed amendment by Mr. Sundborg would be in order at this time for that reason. It is a different amendment that was proposed originally.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would like to move and ask unanimous consent that the proposed amendment be referred to the Rules Committee.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg's motion was seconded to adopt it, but now he asks that rather than act on that motion at this time that the question contained in the motion be referred to the Rules Committee for its consideration. Is there objection to Mr. Sundborg's request?

BARR: I object.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Barr objects.

SUNDBORG: I so move.

WHITE: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg moves and Mr. White seconds

original motion to the Rules Committee for its consideration. The question is open for discussion, the question of referring the matter to the Rules Committee. Mr. Barr.

BARR: Mr. President, that would serve no good purpose except to open everything up to unimportant amendments. Anybody who had any kind of amendment could probably get it referred back to second reading. Under the present rule, of course, you can get it referred back by two-thirds vote, and any important amendment, I am sure --

SUNDBORG: Point of order, Mr. President, Mr. Barr is not talking on the subject which is before us, which is a motion to refer this matter to the Rules Committee.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair will hold, Mr. Sundborg, that Mr. Barr is probably getting around to the point of referring it back to the Rules Committee. Mr. Barr, you may continue.

BARR: Since this is already practically the same motion which was referred to the Committee, and I remember we had a recess of over half an hour while we considered it, it may not have been the same motion but it was the same subject matter, it seems to me they have already taken it under consideration. I don't believe they should do it again. It is holding up our progress here. The rule that we have now has worked in many cases before. I don't know about other Conventions but I know in legislatures it has worked, and it tends to speed up the work by sidetracking any unimportant amendments. I believe that we might be here several more days if we worked under such a rule.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Peratrovich.

PERATROVICH: Mr. Chairman, I think to save time, it appears to me now since this motion is opened up for discussion, it would only be fair to the Convention if the mover of the motion explain the object of referring this question to the Rules Committee. His amendment states clearly just what is to be corrected, and it seems to me that. as Mr. Barr states, it will be just a waste of time to refer this to the Committee. Perhaps you can act on it on the floor unless he has a reason we don't know about.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, as I recall yesterday, after another motion was made to amend our rules, several members came to me after we had acted upon that and suggested that any motion to amend the rules should be referred to the Rules Committee for its consideration before being acted upon on the floor, and it was for that purpose that I felt this rule should be referred to the Committee. The Committee has a meeting

session, and it would not take the time of the Convention which it would not be spending on other matters anyway, for the rule to have the consideration of the Rules Committee which could bring in a report at our afternoon session when we could act upon the main motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion of Mr. Sundborg's motion? The question has been called. All those in favor of referring the question contained in Mr. Sundborg's original motion, of referring that subject to the Rules Committee for its consideration, signify by saying "aye". All opposed "no". The ayes have it and the question will be referred to the Rules Committee for its consideration. Mr. Riley?

RILEY: Mr. President, to refer back to committee announcements, the Rules Committee will meet immediately upon recess.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Rules Committee will meet immediately upon recess. Mr. White?

WHITE: Mr. President, I note the presence on our desk this morning of a certain newspaper, The Juneau Indpendant and also the addition of a column entitled "Sauerkraut and Queens". I have not read it yet, but I don't know whether that's a special edition for the Convention or not but in any event I move and ask unanimous consent that the publisher of The Juneau Independent be thanked for his courtesy.

JOHNSON: I don't have a copy.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there any unfinished business at this time? If not, the Chair will entertain a motion for recess.

GRAY: Mr. President, I move that we adjourn until 1:30 this afternoon.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Gray asks unanimous consent that the Convention stand at recess until 1:30 this afternoon. If there is no objection the Convention is at recess until 1:30.

RECESS

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. Mr. Walsh?

WALSH: Mr. Chairman, I have just observed that we have in the gallery a very distinguished citizen of Alaska, a man who was a member of the first Territorial legislature and helped to organize that body and who has served at different periods of time subsequent to that legislature and in the Senate of this Territory, and he is now a member of the Senate of the Alaska Legislature, Senator Charles D. Jones of Nome.

life to the promotion of the best interests of this Territory, and at this time I ask unanimous consent that he be given the privilege of the floor.

COLLINS: Just a moment. I wish the body would bear with me just a moment. In carrying out the remarks of Mr. Walsh, I wish to say that it was a very happy moment for me personally to see Senator Jones here today. Senator Jones was a member of the first Alaska legislature. In 1913 when we organized the House of Representatives, Mr. Jones was a member of that body. He and I are the only survivors of that body, in 1913, the House of Representatives. It was very unfortunate that the Honorable Henry Roden, the only other survivor of the Senate of 1913 is not here with us. The legislature consisted of 24 members at that time. Twenty-one have answered the last roll call, but there are two of us here today. We can answer the roll call here, and I am glad to see Senator Jones here with us.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection -- Mr. Johnson?

JOHNSON: Mr. President, I certainly have no objection. I was thinking, however, that we could enlarge on Mr. Walsh's unanimous request by including "that he be given the privilege of the floor for the duration of the session."

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, Senator Charles Jones of Nome is granted the privileges of the floor for the balance of the sessions of the Constitutional Convention. (applause)

(Senator Jones came in from the gallery at this time.)

SENATOR JONES: Mr. President and members of the Constitutional Convention. Now when Mr. Collins, ex-speaker of the House of the first legislature and many subsequent legislatures, why he dated me like that I don't know. Now when he said that I was a member of that first legislature, that is a good many years ago, and I am 81 and I have no apologies for any years, so you are listening to maybe a garrulous old man when I am talking. I want to say I am very pleased to be here and to see the earnestness with which this Constitutional Convention is being conducted. I will say without any apology that I have always questioned the necessity of statehood at this time because I could not see where it was going to be paid for, but I'm a little bit "Scotch" that way. But I say I belong to the years, and the younger people are going to have to carry on anyway. My son and I have had very serious arguments about statehood. He is for it and I am opposed to it. I am glad to see it is being carried on but you are the ones who will have to carry it. My doctor told me I had 20 more years to live and he thought I was ornery enough to live it. Maybe

PRESIDENT EGAN: Thank you, Senator Jones. (applause) Is there other business to come before the Convention at this time? Mr. Victor Rivers?

V. RIVERS: I ask for the floor on a matter of personal privilege of interest to the whole body.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Victor Rivers asks the personal privilege of the floor under a question on personal privilege.

V. RIVERS: Now that we are organized and have some matters of moment coming up in a short time, it seems to me that we should discuss and have an opinion in our records on the matter of whether or not the delegates of the Convention have and enjoy legislative immunity. There are things we are going to want to talk about that will involve possibly libelous questions if we do not enjoy such immunity. It seems to me that we should spread on the minutes of this body an opinion. While I realize it would only be an opinion and while I realize there are 13 lawyers here, most of whom will all have an opinion on it, I would like to have spread on the minutes of this record an opinion so I am going to ask unanimous consent that the question, "Are the delegates to this Constitutional Convention entitled to full or limited legislative immunity?" and I ask that it be referred to the Judiciary Committee for a written report, indicating their opinion on the question, that their opinion be spread upon the journal of this Convention when submitted. I ask unanimous consent that that be done.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the unanimous consent request of Mr. Victor Rivers Mr. Hellenthal?

HELLENTHAL: Mr. President, for information only, would it not perhaps be better to submit such a question to the Attorney General rather than burden the membership of this body with passing on such a delicate question involving the membership of this body?

V. RIVERS: I have discussed the matter with the Attorney General and have a verbal opinion from him. However, his opinion, I don't think in any final court of law action would have any more bearing on the matter than would the opinion of our legal members here. At least the opinion on the minutes of our daily actions would give the members here confidence to open their mouths and say what they have to say, and I feel the matter should be handled through our Judiciary Committee rather than through the Attorney General.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I feel that we do not have a Judiciary Committee. We have a committee on the Judiciary Branch, and I think it is a committee that is studying what should be contained in the constitution with respect to the judiciary branch of the State of Alaska. It is not a committee that is properly constituted to rule and even give an opinion on a subject of this kind.

MCLAUGHLIN: Mr. President?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McLaughlin, there really is nothing before us, it is a unanimous consent request.

MCLAUGHLIN: I object for the purpose of discussion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Objection is heard. Mr. Rivers, do you so move?

V. RIVERS: I so move.

MCCUTCHEON: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It has been moved and seconded that the motion offered by Mr. Rivers be carried by the Convention. Mr. McLaughlin?

MCLAUGHLIN: Mr. President, as Chairman of the Judiciary Branch and as a member of the bar who is quite willing to give an opinion with or without request, my suggestion to the Chair is that if Mr. Rivers or any member of the body desires to libel, or the occasion may arise when the Delegate from the l8th District is prepared or any other member is prepared to libel, I think at that time if they approached any one of the numerous lawyers in the body that they would be able to give an opinion which I am sure would vary from that of twelve others on the subject. I don't feel it is the function of the Convention to determine at this time when the problem hasn't arisen, whether or not it enjoys a limited or a complete immunity on the subject.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion? Mr. Ralph Rivers?

R. RIVERS: Mr. President, I think that it is proper to have a common understanding as to the position of the delegates in this regard. Now if it were referred to a special or select committee of lawyers here to just report back to the Convention and that report was spread upon the record, it would accomplish that purpose. Mr. McLaughlin would have to go and do a little research, I am sure, to find whether we have a complete immunity or limited legislative immunity. Rather than wait until someone begins to get into hot water, let's have a common understanding in advance. I support the

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Walsh.

WALSH: Mr. President, may I ask the Secretary to read the motion?

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Secretary will please read Mr. V. Rivers' motion.

CHIEF CLERK: "I ask unanimous consent that the question, 'Are the delegates to this Constitutional Convention entitled to full or limited legislative immunity' be referred to the Judiciary Committee for a written report indicating their opinion on the question and that their opinion be spread upon the Journal of this Convention when submitted."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there further discussion? Mr. McCutcheon?

MCCUTCHEON: Mr. President, it is not my intention at any time on this floor to make libelous statements as such about any organization or firm or person. It may be, however, that in arguing some of the principles we hope to include in the constitution with respect to say natural resources, that the information we put forth here on the floor will be misinterpreted by outside interests or by the newspapers or perhaps deliberately by some attorney for a corporation or firm or person. Consequently, it appears to me that such a decision spread upon the minutes of our Convention would at least make some of the people here a little freer to go more fully into the ramifications of the natural resources that we may desire to control where we may touch upon some very sensitive points. I think, however, that rather than making a committee here responsible for the decision, that it would be properly the office of the Attorney General's authority to issue us such a decision.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal.

HELLENTHAL: Mr. President, if this body passes on the question, it will give us no immunity. It will not change the status that we now occupy one whit. I just can't see what can be gained by having this body, or for that matter, the American Legion pass on the question. What good does it do? Our legal status will remain the same afterwards as it does now. The Attorney General's opinion would have some sanctity, it might serve as a guide to conduct, but thereis always insurance against libel available for a premium a bullet-proof vest.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Marston.

MARSTON: I think I am in favor of this.motion as put that this

pass on this decision and forward it to the Attorney General for his comment. That is my position on it.

PRESlDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would like to move to amend Mr. Rivers' motion by providing that instead of the question being referred to our Committee on the Judiciary Branch, that it be referred to the Attorney General of Alaska.

RILEY: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It has been moved and seconded that Mr. Victor Rivers' motion be amended

V. RIVERS: No objection. I'll accept the amendment. I'd like to see the opinion on the minutes, that's all.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Rivers asks unanimous consent that the proposed amendment be incorporated in the original motion. Is there objection? Hearing no objection, the proposed amendment is ordered incorporated in the original motion. Before the question is put the Chair would like to let every member of the Convention know that this question does not involve any member of the Convention as being able to libel any other member of the Convention because the Chair would instantly step on that but it involves in the course of debate whether or not a libelous charge could be entertained upon the Convention from outside the Convention. You have heard the motion. The Chief Clerk may read the motion as amended again.

CHIEF CLERK: "That the question, 'are the delegates to this Constitutional Convention entitled to full or limited legislative immunity', be referred to the Attorney General for a written report indicating his opinion on the question, that his opinion be spread upon the journal of this Convention when submitted."

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the question. If there is no further discussion -- Mr. Riley?

RILEY: As a point of information, Mr. President, I think we should clearly state the Attorney General of Alaska. I believe that was Mr. Sundborg's reference.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, those words will be included in the original motion. The question is, "Shall the motion offered by Mr. Victor Rivers and as has been amended by Mr. Sundborg be adopted by the Convention?" All in favor of the motion will indicate by saying "aye". All opposed by saying "no". The "ayes" have it and the motion is adopted.

time? Mr. Coghill?

COGHILL: Mr. President, in view of administrative technicalities, I would move and ask unanimous consent that we revert to the order of business of the resolutions.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection, the Convention will revert to the order of business that includes the presentation of resolutions.

COGHILL: Before presenting the resolution, I might add that in our Report No. 1 on the Committee on Administration, under the item of technical consultant service, it was requested by the Administrative Committee and passed by the Convention, Section 4, Page 5, that "when technical and consulting services may be requested by the Convention, this amount will be available." There has been a request for technical services, so therefore, Mr. President, I, as Chairman of the Committee on Administration, report to you as follows: Report of the Committee on Administration, recommended resolution, services of technical consultant. The Committee on Administration recommends adoption of the following resolution:

"WHEREAS the Convention may have need for the

services of technical consultants on various subjects

during its deliberations; and

"WHEREAS the Legislature of Alaska anticipated the

possible need for such services and included provision

therefore in the total appropriation for the Convention;

"NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED:

1. That the Convention hereby authorize the obtaining of the services of technical consultants upon request for such services being made by a Committee Chairman and approved by the President of the Convention.

2. That the President of the Convention shall have authority to select the consultants after consultation with the Committee Chairmen.

3. That the administrative arrangements for employment of any consultant shall be approved by the Committee on Administration and be executed by the Secretary of the Convention."

I move and ask unanimous consent for the adoption.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill asks unanimous consent for the adoption of the resolution. Mr. Smith?

SMITH: I am willing to object.

COGHILL: I so move.

MCCUTCHEON: I second the motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill moves and Mr. McCutcheon seconds the motion for adoption of the resolution. Mr. Smith?

SMITH: Mr. Chairman, my objection is based on the first paragraph of the resolution, and the objection is to the word

"Chairman" which appears after "Committee . I think that word should be omitted. In other words, the decision should be left to the committee rather than to the chairman, and if it is in order to do so, I will propose that the word "Chairman" be stricken from this paragraph.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Smith, then you are asking that an amendment be made to the original motion by Mr. Coghill, that the motion be adopted, but the word "Chairman" be deleted?

SMITH: That is correct.

MCCUTCHEON: Point of order, Mr. President. How can the committee ask for technical help? The chairman is the authorized agent of the committee. It seems amazing to me that the chairman would ask for technical assistance if the committee objected to it.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McCutcheon, do you think that it might be entirely clarified by the words, committee through its chairman"?

SMITH: Mr. President, I would like to withdraw my proposed amendment. I think it's fair enough.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Smith asks unanimous consent that his proposed amendment to the motion be withdrawn. Mr. Fischer?

V. FISCHER: I just have a question as to form. The resolution itself, nowhere in its body refers to the Convention as the Constitutional Convention or otherwise identifies it, and it seems to me for proper form it should at least once in the resolved specify the Constitutional Convention of Alaska.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Fischer, would you mind holding that until this particular motion is acted upon? It would then be in order. The original motion hasn't been voted upon yet.

R. RIVERS: Mr. Chairman, what is the motion before the Convention?

PRESIDENT EGAN: The motion before the house is the motion of

this resolution by the Constitutional Convention.

R. RIVERS: Wouldn't an amendment by Delegate Fischer to change the language be in order before we act on the motion?

PRESIDENT EGAN: It could be in order. The only thing the Chair thought that possibly it might be simpler to --

R. RIVERS: Well, I don't like to adopt something until the corrections are made. As a point of information, what does "Convention/4" mean up on the second line? Does that mean Resolution 4? "Convention" is not a Convention report.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If the Secretary might explain that to Mr. Ralph Rivers.

SECRETARY: If you will recall the recommendation on documentation, this is the fourth report by the Committee on Administration and that documentation series number is applied that way on committee reports.

R. RIVERS: Aren't we numbering resolutions separately from proposals for instance? Why don't we call it Resolution/4 then?

SECRETARY: Resolutions on substantive matters, not on the general management of the Convention.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair doesn't have any number on his copy. Mr. White?

WHITE: As a point of order, or rather information, I suspect that these experts from the States come at rather a high price, and I have been given to understand their time is limited. I don't see any provision in here for coordination between two or more committees who may have need of the same expert or consultant. It occurs to me that Committee "A" might be ready for Consultant Jones today. Committee "B" might not be ready for him until two weeks hence. Consultant Jones conceivably might only be able to come to Alaska for a period of one week. I don't know quite how to cover this. I would like to ask of the Committee on Administration if this point had been discussed and if the resolving of it can be worked out.

COGHILL: That subject has been brought up and has been discussed to some length in our Committee. This resolution is in effect an authorization for the administrative staff to obtain upon the request of the committee chairman. It is not an authorization immediately ordering them. I think that can follow in an administrative memorandum instead of by resolution, coordination of technical services.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Nolan.

NOLAN: It would seem too that that would be taken care of due to the fact that you meet with your committee chairmen, and it has to be approved by you.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. McNees.

MCNEES: Mr. President, I think it is specifically covered here in No. 2 of the Resolution, "That the President of the Convention shall have the authority . ." The authority does not lie with the individual committee chairman. It must be cleared through the Chair and the Secretary.

WHITE: Mr. President, I don't read No. 2 that way. I read that to mean that the President of the Convention shall have the authority to decide which consultant is best suited to the need that has arisen. I don't read that to mean that the President shall have the authority to coordinate between committees as to the needs for consultants. This point has come up again and again. I get confused between authority to proceed and --

PRESlDENT EGAN: Mr. White, as a point of information, if the Secretary could tell you of another memorandum that is available.

SECRETARY: There is a draft memorandum on this subject of the organization of the services to insure their coordinated use which has been prepared for the use of the committee chairmen for their consideration, criticism and evaluation. The memorandum was not distributed because, if I state the desires of the President correctly, he wished to put it to them at their next meeting.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is correct, Mr. Secretary.

WHITE: Mr. President, apparently the matter has been given due consideration between two or three individuals, bodies or committees and I will withdraw my objection.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would like to state that Mr. Ralph Rivers' point was well taken. The Chair was a little confused. It had Mr. Smith's amendment to the motion in mind. Mr. Victor Fischer, your proposed amendment is in order before we vote on the original motion.

V. FISCHER: I would like to move and ask unanimous consent that the first line in Resolve No. 1 be amended by inserting before the word "Convention" the word "Constitutional" and inserting after the word "Convention" the words "of Alaska."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to the request of Mr.

the amendment is ordered adopted.

MCCUTCHEON: Question.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The question is, "Shall the Resolution be adopted by the Convention?" All in favor of the adoption of the resolution signify by "aye", all opposed "no". The "ayes" have it, and the resolution is ordered adopted. Is there further business to come before the Convention? Mr. Johnson?

JOHNSON: Mr. President, I was informed that Mr. Taylor has been absent due to illness. Therefore I move and ask unanimous consent that since Mr. Taylor's absence was due to illness that he be paid salary and per diem for the past two days.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the request of Mr. Johnson.

MCLAUGHLIN: May I, through the Chair, suggest to Mr. Johnson that the words "per diem" and "salary" be stricken and that Mr. Taylor's name be included on the roll call as present.

JOHNSON: Anyway is satisfactory to me. I have no objection.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Would you consent to amending the request, Mr. Johnson to say that Mr. Taylor's name be included on the roll call?

JOHNSON: Yes.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection, there being no objection it is so ordered. Mr. Kilcher?

KILCHER: Mr. President, I am not quite certain whether we have or have not a motion on the floor from this morning.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You are correct, Mr. Kilcher. There was a motion on the floor this morning that sent the Rules Committee out for a meeting. That is right. Is the Rules Committee ready to report?

RILEY: Mr. President, I should like to defer for the moment to Mr. Kilcher.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Kilcher, you may have the floor.

KILCHER: After discussing the difference of opinion expressed by that motion this morning with the Committee on Rules, I have come to the following position. I am satisfied that the Committee on Rules has recognized a basic difference of opinion and am therefore willing to postpone any action on the matter until the Committee on Rules has had time to further consider

PRESIDENT EGAN: That motion, as the Chair remembers it, was made by Mr. Sundborg. The Committee on Rules went out to consider the motion, as the Chair recalls.

RILEY: Mr. President, I had had in mind that Mr. Kilcher had intended to ask postponement of that matter to a time stated and perhaps that is his wish, and if so I should like at this time to defer a committee report from Rules. The Rules Committee did not wish to be in position of foreclosing or discouraging discussion or debate from any source. With Mr. Kilcher's consent I should like to suggest and I so move and ask unanimous consent that the matter referred this morning to the Committee on Rules be put off until Monday morning, first order of business.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to the request of Mr. Riley's? Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I do not object but I do want to say it was my motion under discussion and I do assent to this procedure.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Thank you, Mr. Sundborg. Then, if there is no objection this matter will be held in abeyance until Monday morning. Hearing no objection it is so ordered. Is there any other business to come before the Convention? Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: I would like to inquire whether it is going to be our procedure here to go through the call of the order of

business at the afternoon as well as the morning session, or

what does the Chair feel?

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is not usually done, Mr. Sundborg. Whatever the wish of the Convention is -- the Chair will adhere to that wish. Whether or not it might be more expeditious to go down through the regular order of business is a matter for the Convention to decide and the Chair will hold that the subject is open for discussion.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, for instance we deferred the reading of the journal for today, and I believe for each day, until the afternoon session. I wonder if that should not be called for as a regular order of business instead of just left to happenstance as to whether the journal will be called for.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It might be well because of that to just start down the regular order of business when we convene in the afternoon session, Mr. Sundborg. If there is no objection, that is the position the Chair will take. From now on the Chair will call for the regular order of business in the afternoon sessions except that the roll will not be called. Mr. Nolan?

NOLAN: Was it not your suggestion, Mr. Sundborg, that it come up the first thing in the afternoon? It seems to me that if we start the regular order of business and get tangled up with propositions, etc., we are liable to run over our scheduled meeting times, and I would suggest, as Mr. Sundborg stated, it be the first order of business in the afternoon session.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That the reading of the journal and dispense with any other going down through the regular order of business?

NOLAN: Yes, if its already been deferred, then bring it back as first order of business, because otherwise we are liable to lose track of it again.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is right, but the Chair just felt that like what is taking place this afternoon, it has extended into a considerable length of time. Perhaps it would have been more advantageous to start down the regular order than to have gone on as we are. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: I just think for the purpose of having an orderly journal it would be well to have some order of business at each session, the morning session and afternoon sessions. For example, I think that every afternoon there is going to be at least one committee report and probably several because some of our committees will have been meeting during the morning and will have reports to bring in. There should be a stated place in the order of business for those reports to be made so that our journal won't be a jumping from one subject to another and back again.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney.

SWEENEY: I feel that at 1 o'clock we should have the reading and the approval of the journal and then go on with whatever business we have not finished at 9:30. I believe the committee meetings should start promptly at 2 o'clock and then go on until 4:50. If we have other business that should be taken care of, then we should take care of it at 5 o'clock and not adjourn until those things have been taken care of. But I do not think we should start with the first order of business in the morning. We will never get to the end of a day's calendar that way. At this time we should have the approval of yesterday's journal. We are already past the time for committee meetings.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is the journal before us at this time?

SWEENEY: I will call for the reading and the approval of the journal.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney is asking for the reading and

SWEENEY: I believe I am in order to make a correction in the journal, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney wishes to make a correction in the journal.

SWEENEY: On the first page --

UNIDENTIFIED DELEGATE: I don't have a copy.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Have those copies been distributed?

UNIDENTIFIED DELEGATE: The first row was missed I guess.

SWEENEY: On the first page, beginning with the words "Mr. Sundborg moved and asked unanimous consent that the reading of the journal of the previous day be dispensed with and that the journal be approved. Mr. Londborg objected. Mr. Johnson seconded. Mr. Sundborg asked unanimous consent to amend his motion to delete the reference to approving the journal. There being no objection, it was so ordered. Mr. Londborg withdrew his objection to the original motion so it was ordered adopted." What actually happened was that we did not dispense with the reading and the approval of the journal. We held it off until later in the day. Mr. Sundborg deleted the approval of the journal and the approval of all previous journals was also deleted. So we still have the opportunity to approve the journals of each business day. So that should be corrected that it would not dispense with or postpone to a later time in the day.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney, that is covered on the next page. It says, "The President stated that in line with this motion when the journals for the previous days' sessions are available, any delegate will have the right to bring to the attention of the Convention any possible errors."

SWEENEY: We could go on for two weeks, Mr. President, with no reference to the effect that the journal for the 9th, lOth or llth day had been approved. We could only assume that by the lack of any reference, any objections or corrections. But I believe that each day our journal should show that the journal for the previous day had been approved. If there are no corrections then it would be a simple motion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Of course the idea was, Mrs. Sweeney, that it would be impossible to actually approve until the members could see the journal. Was that not the original intent?

SWEENEY: Then the journal should be placed on our desks earlier than before 1 o'clock or 1:30. PRESIDENT EGAN: Up to today that was not possible because of the help shortage. From now on it will be placed there at an earlier time.

SWEENEY: I still maintain, Mr. President, that each day at a certain time there should be a motion stating that the journal of the previous day has been approved or is approved.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You ask unanimous consent that the journal of the eighth day be approved by the Convention -- is that your motion, Mrs. Sweeney?

SWEENEY: Yes, I would ask that with the correction that we make the change in the word "dispense" because we did not dispense with it. We actually asked that it be postponed until later in the day. We did not get it later in the day.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Is there objection to Mrs. Sweeney's request? Hearing no objection it is so ordered. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would like to suggest that the first full paragraph on page 2 which deals with this matter of the journal is out of order and it should appear ahead of the subsection on communications on the first page, instead of following the letter.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection that correction will be made. Are there other proposed corrections to the journal of the eighth day?

HELLENTHAL: On Page 7 I think the time of the adjournment should be stated, Page 7 in the closing paragraph, the way I read it and I read it only hastily, it does not indicate what time, the time at which the adjournment took place, I think should be stated.

SWEENEY: I would object to that because we would have to show we adjourned at 1:30 and actually we did not because there were committee meetings all afternoon. It might not look right, while we know that we are in session some days, someone might pick this up and it would look like we are adjourning pretty early in the afternoon.

HELLENTHAL: I defer to Mrs. Sweeney.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection. Mr. Armstrong?

ARMSTRONG: Just a matter of correction for the sake of the permanent record the matter of the titles under the "invocation". It should read "Mr." If the title is to be used, it should be "Reverend Mr." or Reverent R. R. I make this suggestion not because of my name here but because of a technique in reporting that should appear in reference to other men as

PRESIDENT EGAN: Which would be more preferable, Mr. Armstrong?

ARMSTRONG: I would prefer it to be "Mr."

PRESIDENT EGAN: Then if there is no objection the invocation was given by "Reverend Mr. Armstrong" and will appear in the journal. Hearing no objection, it is so ordered. Mrs. Hermann?

HERMANN: On Page 2, I was just wondering why the name of Ancil Payne is signed twice.

PRESIDENT EGAN: It appeared twice on the original letter. Are there other corrections? Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, it occurs to me that we are going to spend an awfully lot of time of all 55 members of this Convention looking over the journal each day and suggesting minor corrections. I wonder if we should not do what is the practice in the Legislature in Alaska and designate a committee of several members to look over the journal very carefully, perhaps while it is still in draft form, and before it has been mimeographed. Most of these little errors could be picked up at that time instead of on the floor of the Convention.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Sweeney.

SWEENEY: Mr. Chairman, that is going to delay the works. It would mean someone would have to come here before 8:30 in the morning, go over the Chief Clerk's draft before it can be mimeographed. I think the committee idea is good, and I believe that if Mr. Sundborg would consent to having the mimeographed journal read by this committee they could report to the chamber here that the journal has been approved with a few minor corrections or some such thing.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection the Chair would name the Committee on Administration to do that. Now they will probably have a meeting almost every morning. Mrs. Sweeney?

SWEENEY: I don't believe that is the business of the Administration Committee. I am sincere in that, Mr. President. I think we are going to take care of all the nails and door knobs and things like that, but I am not sure this belongs in the Committee.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Coghill.

COGHILL: Mr. President, I might for a moment appeal to the Chair that the Rules Committee might be the best committee for that.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Convention will come to order. If there is no objection, the Chair will name a committee to accomplish that matter of going over the journal and attempting to find any errors and report them to the Convention. The Chair would appoint Mr. Knight, Mr. White, and Mr. Doogan as a committee of three to take that responsibility of the prior inspection of the journal. Mr. Johnson?

JOHNSON: On Page 1 of the journal, after the item on roll call, it occurs to me that in order to perfect the record, there should be a statement that a quorum is present, and while it is obvious that a quorum is present from the fact that only one or two are absent, it still should be a matter of record.

PRESIDENT EGAN: If there is no objection it is so ordered and hereafter the Chair will announce that a quorum is present at that time. Are there other proposed corrections? Mr. Cooper?

COOPER: Mr. President, I don't have a proposed correction. I

was wondering now that the entire secretariat staff is

hired, at what time does the journal reach the form it is now

in -- mimeographed and ready for disbursing to the delegates?

CHIEF CLERK: Today it was ready at 1:15, mimeographed.

COOPER: What I was going to bring up was that I personally have faith in the committee but I would also like to have the journal, if I could have it sometime early in the morning at a predetermined time ahead of the actual reading and accepting of the journal for the previous day then a lot of the minor mistakes that have been noted at this time could be presented in an orderly fashion.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Will the Chief Clerk explain that?

CHIEF CLERK: I believe you can have the journal tomorrow morning possibly by 9 o'clock because it is already half drafted. It is just the business of this afternoon that needs to be finished, and the stencils can probably be cut tonight and run off and maybe it will be ready at 9:00. I would not promise that for every day. It depends on the length of your plenary session.

COOPER: What I was going to point out -- there are 51 individuals here excluding the Chairman and the committee that will be reporting on this, and each and every one might find some minor infraction in the journal after the committee has ruled it be accepted.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The committee will ask that it be accepted.

COOPER: You will go through this discussion and time-consuming

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: Mr. President, I would suggest simply that the mimeographed copies of the journal be distributed each day to all members at as early an hour as possible upon the mimeographed copies being ready and that no matter what hour that is that the journal always be considered for reading, correction, adoption at the beginning of the afternoon session.

PRESIDENT EGAN: That suggestion will be considered as the policy of the Convention relative to the journal. Is there further discussion? If there is no further amendment to the journal it is ordered approved. The journal of the eighth day is ordered approved.

HELLENTHAL: I move, Mr. President, we adjourn until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning, unless there is a prior motion before the House.

MCNEALY: Before acting on that motion, I would like to announce Committee No. IV, Committee on Ordinance will meet directly after recess.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Committee No. IV, Committee on Ordinance will meet directly after recess. Mr. Rosswog?

ROSSWOG: The Committee on Local Government will meet at 3:30 this afternoon.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Committee on Local Government, Committee No. XII will meet at 3:30. Mr. Sundborg?

SUNDBORG: Committee No. III, Style and Drafting, met this morning and wishes to report to the Convention that it decided to prepare a manual on style which will contain suggestions on format, arrangement --

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal, your point of order.

HELLENTHAL: I rise to a point of order. I believe the committee report should be submitted in writing according to the rules.

SUNDBORG: No, the only committee reports which should be submitted in writing according to our rules are reports on matters referred to a committee by the Convention. Is that correct?

HELLENTHAL: I stand corrected.

PRESIDENT EGAN: For purposes of making it easier for the Clerk,

as it would be possible to do so.

SUNDBORG: All committee reports?

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Chair would feel that should be in order.

SUNDBORG: Shall I proceed with this one?

PRESIDENT EGAN: Yes you may, Mr. Sundborg.

SUNDBORG: The Committee decided to prepare a manual on style which will contain suggestions on format, arrangement, titling, numbering and phrasing of articles and sections of the constitution, which manual will be distributed to all the committees dealing with proposals for the constitution. The Committee decided also to investigate the feasibility of preparing a wall chart which would keep account of progress being made in building the constitution. A subcommittee was appointed to take charge of each of these matters, with Mr. Armstrong being the Chairman of the Subcommittee on the Style Manual and Mr. Davis the Chairman of the Subcommittee on the Wall Chart.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mrs. Hermann.

HERMANN: Mr. Chairman, I suggest that Mr. Sundborg forgot to name the elected officers of his committee.

SUNDBORG: They were named yesterday, Mrs. Hermann, reported to the committee.

HERMANN: We did not elect them until this morning -- pardon me, I meant Rules, Mr. Sundborg.

PRESIDENT EGAN: The Rules Committee, Mr. Riley.

RILEY: The Rules Committee today organized itself with the election of Mrs. Hermann as Vice Chairman and Mr. Rosswog as Secretary.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Chairman of the Rules Committee. Mr. Cross?

CROSS: Committee No. XIV, the Committee on Resolutions and Recommendations, met and organized. All members were present. Mr. Gray was elected Vice Chairman and Mr. Robertson was appointed Secretary. One item of business came before the Committee and a report is being prepared for the consideration of the Convention. This Committee will meet at the scheduled time but only on call of the Chairman or the Vice Chairman.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Thank you Mr. Cross. Mr. Victor Rivers?

V. RIVERS: Committee No. VIII, on the Executive, the Committee met this morning and organized and held the initial meeting. All members were present. We elected Mr. John Boswell Vice Chairman and Mr. Harris was appointed Secretary. We will meet again at the regular time tomorrow morning.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Chairman of the Executive Committee. Mr. Collins?

COLLINS: Committee XIII will meet on schedule for purposes of organization.

SMITH: Mr. President, Committee No. X on Resources met and organized. Mr. Riley was named as Secretary and Mr. Boswell was elected Vice President. The Committee began the review of the subjects to come before the Committee and will continue that review at its next regularly scheduled meeting.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Resources Committee. Mrs. Awes?

AWES: The Committee on the Bill of Rights and Preamble met at the scheduled time. Ada Wien was elected as Vice Chairman and Mr. Armstrong was named Secretary. We began discussion of the subjects to be considered and will meet tomorrow at the schedule time.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You have heard the report of the Committee on Preamble and Bill of Rights. Mr. Robertson, your question?

ROBERTSON: Do I understand that now the order of business will be called at the plenary session in the morning and then in the afternoon will be continued on -- that part that is not finished after first reading and approving the minutes of the previous day?

PRESIDENT EGAN: That is correct, Mr. Robertson. That is the wish of the Convention. Mr. Johnson your point of information.

JOHNSON: Point of information. Will it be possible in the afternoon sessions to refer to matters in the order of business that have taken place in the morning, or would it require unanimous consent?

PRESIDENT EGAN: It would depend on how the matter came up, Mr. Johnson.

JOHNSON: I was thinking particularly of the matter of introduction of proposals.

PRESIDENT EGAN: By two-thirds vote you could revert back to the introduction of proposals in the afternoon. Yes. Is there anything else to come before the Convention? The Chair

committee chairmen this afternoon. However, inasmuch as it is such a late hour, that meeting will be deferred until tomorrow afternoon immediately following the recess. Is there anything further to come before the Convention at this time? If not, the Chair will entertain a motion to adjourn.

CHIEF CLERK: Mr. Hellenthal has made such a motion already.

PRESIDENT EGAN: You already made your motion, Mr. Hellenthal?

HELLENTHAL: Yes.

PRESIDENT EGAN: Mr. Hellenthal moved and asked unanimous consent that the Convention stand adjourned until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. Is there objection? Hearing no objection the Convention is adjourned until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.